Talk:ATD 149-170

Page 153

Perhaps bin Laden?

It strikes me as something more general, surreal, nonspecific... but maybe? Bleakhaus 19:54, 7 January 2007 (PST)

There is no textual evidence for thinking this image is of bin Laden, even allegorically, I think. Yes, I think it is any general 'religious' type as passed down in history but turned into an 'arc-lit' iconic image... (anonymous?)

I'll concede that it is arguable that it is not bin Laden, but there is textual evidence that it could be. First, the passage at the end of that paragraph refers to the image as "'this Our Protector,' who remained, guardedly, unnamed" This care to avoid naming the image suggests that there is a specific name that could (but must not) be attributed to it. If it is a specific image, the only other robed and sandalled figure I can think of would be Ghandi, which would make little sense. Furthermore,there are two other mentions of somehow venerating or making peace with the author of the Event.In the same sentence, the image is said to "make easier whatever turnings of heart might become necessary in striking a deal with the invader." On 154, the city puts up "propitiatory structures", "as demonstrations of Loyalty to the Destroyer" Foolishmortal 11:27, 9 January 2007 (PST)

Bin Laden seems like a stretch at first, but then it would seem equally a stretch that an author as historically- and politcally-minded as Pynchon wouldn't throw Bin Laden in somewhere. My guess is, it's not a one-to-one correspondence, but that certain "resonances" to Bin Laden (or other bearded figures in history, Ayatollah, for example) may be intentional. S-Fremin 08:17, 20 January 2007 (PST)

It does initially "seem a stretch", but rereading the passage has redoubled my conviction that it is,specifically, OBL. Your point on the recurring theme of "things that must not be named" is a good one: I seem to recall another instance of it later in the book. My point about the specificity is this: when Traverse and Rideout are discussing the Anti-Stone, Rideout feels the need to interrupt Webb before he can say the name of the Anti-Stone. This implies that there is a specific name for it that Webb could have uttered had Merle not interrupted him. Similarly, the "guardedness" with which the figure is unnamed implies that it could be named, and this possibility must be guarded against. If you accept that here is a specific name for the figure, then it becomes much more difficult to doubt the bin Laden hypothesis. This chapter is about 9/11: we all agree there, right? In that context, OBL is an obvious candidate for the non-Jesus robed and bearded figure. When you add in the "propitiatory structures" and "Loyalty to the Destroyer" I referenced above, it just seems an open and shut case to me. It might be that I'm wrong: I certainly have no clue what the figure being bin Laden means . But reread that little passage, and if you don't buy my theory, tell me why.

Foolishmortal 21:31, 20 January 2007 (PST)